Monday, 16 November 2009

  • Health Care Bill: Pay $15,000 Premium or Go to Jail!?

    Health Care Bill: Pay $15,000 Premium or Go to Jail!?
    source

    This is what I am hearing about the new health care bill.

    "H.R. 3962 provides that an individual (or a husband and wife in the case of a joint return) who does not, at any time during the taxable year, maintain acceptable health insurance coverage for himself or herself and each of his or her qualifying children is subject to an additional tax." [page 1]

    Criminal penalties

    Prosecution is authorized under the Code for a variety of offenses. Depending on the level of the noncompliance, the following penalties could apply to an individual:

    • Section 7203 – misdemeanor willful failure to pay is punishable by a fine of up to $25,000 and/or imprisonment of up to one year.

    • Section 7201 – felony willful evasion is punishable by a fine of up to $250,000 and/or imprisonment of up to five years.” [page 3]

    When confronted with this same issue during its consideration of a similar individual mandate tax, the Senate Finance Committee worked on a bipartisan basis to include language in its bill that shielded Americans from civil and criminal penalties. The Pelosi bill, however, contains no similar language protecting American citizens from civil and criminal tax penalties that could include a $250,000 fine and five years in jail.

    “The Senate Finance Committee had the good sense to eliminate the extreme penalty of incarceration. Speaker Pelosi’s decision to leave in the jail time provision is a threat to every family who cannot afford the $15,000 premium her plan creates. Fortunately, Republicans have an alternative that will lower health insurance costs without raising taxes or cutting Medicare,” said Camp.

    According to the Congressional Budget Office, the lowest cost family non-group plan under the Speaker’s bill would cost $15,000 in 2016!

    What are your thoughts on the new health care bill? Do you think this bill is a good idea?

Comments (13)

  • tsh44@xanga

    Average salaries in my area seem to be dropping not increasing. I'm pretty sure that no one in my circle of friends can afford to pay what they are asking. I think that there will be far too many people who cannot pay and they will have to change it or just make the US a penal colony in it's entirety.

  • AlterEgo909@xanga

    The way I've understood it is that people unable to pay won't be penalized. It will go through the IRS. 

  • Mandiful2007@xanga

    I dont' know much about the topic buuuuut i never understood why fines exist if someone isn't getting their money in the first place! Don't you think that if people had the funds to pay the original fee they would have?!  just a thought...

  • redhairedgrrl@xanga

    My understanding is that people with incomes up to 400% of the poverty level will receive supplements to help them buy health insurance. People with up to 150% of the poverty level will pay nothing at all. And of course many individuals get supplements through their employer to purchase health insurance.

    People without health insurance will be fined, up to 2.5% of their income. Not paying this fine is like not paying your income tax. The penalties listed above are the same if you don't pay income tax.

    The Republican Health Care Proposal doesn't mandate that everyone buy insurance, but doesn't cover hardly any more people either. And it doesn't prevent insurance companies from denying coverage or increasing rates based on pre-existing conditions.

  • SicTransitGloria19@xanga
  • agnophilo@xanga

    Total fiction, have disproven this shit on like three blogs already.

    Here's a post I made on another blog:

    You would have to make over half a million
    dollars a year AND the cost of the average healthcare plan would have
    to exponentially multiply for this to be true.  Otherwise someone
    making say 20,000 a year would pay about $275 a year, and that's only
    if they don't have health insurance to begin with.

    http://www.opencongress.org/bill/111-h3962/text

    Above is a link to the healthcare bill named in this letter.

    Note
    that the last section is section of the bill is section 3205, and that
    the above letter is quoting 7201 and 7203, supposedly of the healthcare
    bill.

    Now hit CTR+F to bring up the search function (on the page
    or tab with the healthcare bill).  Search for "2.5" (minus quotes). 
    The first hit should be 72.5, ignore that and click to see the next
    one, it should be under the section 59B.  This is the section that
    details the tax on people without "acceptable" health insurance.  Note
    that it defines what is acceptable and all pre-existing or
    "grandfathered" policies, medicare, medicaid, VA benefits, etc and any
    policy that meets the minimum requirements are included.  Basically if
    you have any insurance at all you're exempt from the tax.  Note also
    that it says the tax cannot be more than the average cost of a health
    insurance policy, meaning the average cost of an insurance policy would
    have to be $15,000 for the above claim to be true.  Also note that it
    cannot exceed 2.5% of your adjusted income (after your 7k or so
    deductible), so if someone made $14,000 in a year (twice their likely
    deductible) they would get health insurance for about 1% of that, or
    roughly 140 dollars a year.  Furthermore, do the math, the maximum tax
    is 2.5% of your annual income, and 15,000 is 2.5% of 600,000.

  • agnophilo@xanga

    This is the kind of chain letter bullshit healthkicker features on their homepage?

  • whitetrashpoet@xanga

    @agnophilo@xanga - Thanks for posting that. It's been disproven all over but people don't like to listen, apparently.

  • MangoWOW@xanga
  • agnophilo@xanga

    @whitetrashpoet@xanga - @MangoWOW@xanga - You're welcome.

    Almost every "criticism" of the healthcare bill is a simple lie.  But a lot of die-hard conservatives keep going back to the same sources after it's demonstrated over and over and over that they are making shit up.  Conservativism in some cases seems more pathological than ideological.

    Or maybe I'm blaming the symptom for the disease, I don't know.

  • I_am_Sango@xanga

    i dont even make that much in a year.  boo.

  • Ork58@xanga

    Well, regardless of the smoke and mirrors (and there are plenty on both sides of the isle) forcing people to pay for health insurance will never fly. It will be struck down constitutionally by the Supreme Court. Flies in the face of our Constitution. Health Care is not a right, not a privelege, not provided for under the Constitution. It is a power grab, however, by liberal minded people who want to exert control over the multitudes, and empower themselves and create bureaucracy to enable themselves to keep hogging at the Public Trough. Fact is, government has never been good at running anything for the masses. Look what they did to Amtrack, Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security, etc. All these programs either cost more than they provide or are bankrupt. The Health Care industry is not the problem in this country, paying for it is. Tort reform is where the change needs to start. Get these blood sucking lawyers out of here and start capping medical malpractice suits and awards, and yes, if necessary, regulate drug companies. Hard to justify the CEOs making millions or billions when the average schmuck can't afford insurance. Competition will bring that into balance, if regulators and lawyers and gov'ment would get out of the way. Allowing insurance to be sold across state lines, etc. Lots of crappy restrictions that if lifted, would have a huge impact on the situation, but that is being ignored. But hey! Change, change, change, oh yes we can!

  • DessertHer@xanga

    My main question regaurding this is simple but, I haven't seemed to come across an answer yet. I want to know what the specific income guidelines are. For example: How much can a family of four make annually and qualify for reduced or free subsidised coverage? I know that my family of four couldn't currently, realistically afford more than $100 per month without claiming chapter 7 or risk loosing everything. So while I absolutly need medical coverage right now (currently ill and have no way to afford seeing the specialist I need) I'm a little nervous about what the gov will decide the income limitations are. I'm still a bit leary about the fine print as well. Will every specialist, every diagnostic measure, and every non elective treatment be covered in full? To get a diagnosis alone I'm looking at 1000s upon 1000s upon 1000s of dollars and I've hit a dead end. Cost for treatment is another story. This bill is my ONLY shot aside from asking doctors personally to see me for free out of the kindness of their hearts. Don't qualify for medicaid, medicare, cobra, private ins, SS, disibility coverage would require firm diagnosis first, spouse's employer insurance is too expensive and won't cover pre-existing, basic health is broke, free and low cost clinics don't have the specialists and diagnostics I require, and charity programs in my area don't cover the specialists I've been referred to. But, if I'm going to go broke and loose my house either way I'd certainly rather do it on my own terms. So, I pray that this bill will have realistic or generous income guidelines and get passed. Sorry, but I need to look out for myself and my family. Right now I feel like I'm watching myself die because I have no options.

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